Defecto spouse grounds to end alimony?

Document that they are living together. Present that to your attorney and let them petition the court to end the alimony. Alimony is something that should be a relic of the past anyway. Why should anybody support someone who is no longer their spouse? Child support? Absolutely. Alimony? Nope. If one spouse stayed home with the kids for some amount of time, that is a decision they made.

@Tan
Eww that last line though is a no, super gross. I personally think alimony is outdated UNTIL being a stay-at-home parent comes into play. I don’t think you even remotely understand how valuable it is to have your child’s early years with a parent. They are NOT getting what they NEED for their development at a daycare. Leaving one’s job to provide an essential service for the family should be rewarded with a replacement of lost income in the case of divorce. Until you understand the nuance involved with having kids and how that can affect someone’s job prospects for their entire life, I think you should refrain from commenting.

@Jessie
So I understand your perspective… but this varies per the people involved and daycares. The social environment of a daycare after 1 year old is much better than staying at home unless the parent is consistently working with the child on developmental/life skills. And getting the kids to social activities with others. Let’s be realistic; a lot of stay-at-home moms aren’t. My ex gave this as her reason to quit her career. Developmentally, for kids, 95% of the time, staying at home isn’t the best. My ex isolated, and if anything made our kids ignorant of many things that have taken me 5 years to teach them. I handed my son a dustpan and brush when he was 10, and he didn’t know how to use them. Yes, I work full-time and worked hard for my kids and the ex. Unfortunately, I have yet to discover anything she taught them except for being afraid of her. Are my kids lacking in social skills? Yep.

@Tan
They already walked away with half of the cash on hand, the value of the home, and retirement/investment accounts. I can see maybe paying alimony for 6 months or a year, but anything longer is absurd. And it absolutely should be taxed by the person receiving, not the person paying.

@Haven
Many times one spouse gives up a good income to support the breadwinner. That spouse hasn’t been contributing to a 401k, etc. That spouse can’t get a decent line of credit or a mortgage, etc.

Ash said:
@Haven
Many times one spouse gives up a good income to support the breadwinner. That spouse hasn’t been contributing to a 401k, etc. That spouse can’t get a decent line of credit or a mortgage, etc.

And that is a choice they made. They knew the risk. Then they walk away from the marriage with half the value of the home, half the marital assets, half the working person’s 401k, half investments, etc. The non-working spouse could get a line of credit if they were on the loans/credit cards with the working spouse—they’d have built their credit score alongside the working spouse. Today, most jobs don’t require having the supportive spouse behind the scenes anymore. Once the children are in school, about 5/6 years old, there’s really no reason not to work. However, if that’s what you choose, then understand the potential outcome. Their living expenses are covered during the marriage; that’s their payment for that domestic labor. A few months post-divorce, I can see, but definitely no more than a year.

@Haven
Even with your stipulations, let’s imagine you have 2 kids 4 years apart and you go back to work when the youngest starts full-time kindergarten at age 5/6. You’re out of the workforce for 10 years. That’s 10 years of lost earning power, 10 years of not building a career, seniority, accrued benefits, a retirement account, credit history. You start at entry level with only the minimum sick days (which you will need for three people), unable to work extra hours unless your spouse isn’t working. What career do you think a stay-at-home parent can jump into after 10 years out of the workforce and make anywhere close to what the working partner has gained?

@Chen
Oh, it sucks. 100%. There’s always an option to return to work before the child enters school. I will never be convinced that spousal maintenance should be allowed to continue beyond 12 months. The money you walk away with is your ‘payment’ for that domestic labor you put in. If you don’t like those terms, stay in the workforce.

@Haven
True story: I know someone who stayed home with the kids and then her husband left on the youngest kid’s 18th birthday. Then she got cancer. I see that you will never be convinced, so I won’t bother. Fortunately, the judge thought that the spouse earning at the peak of his career bore some financial responsibility to my friend, who sacrificed a lifetime of earning potential to support her husband’s career as well as raise the family.

@Tan
Lol, your last sentence gives you away. Domestic labor is labor and should be compensated for in a divorce.

Finn said:
@Tan
Lol, your last sentence gives you away. Domestic labor is labor and should be compensated for in a divorce.

You believe domestic labor should be compensated by her ex-husband paying her a stipend for over a year they haven’t been living together anymore? I can maybe understand a few months, but if an able-bodied adult can’t get a job for over a year after separation, that becomes theft. Where’s the proof she did all the domestic labor just because she didn’t work? You know it’s possible for the breadwinner to be the primary caregiver, right? Did the court analyze the amount of domestic labor done, or did it just assume because she didn’t work she did it?

@Vince
She did not do domestic labor. Husband worked, shopped, cooked, cleaned, and raised the kids. One of their adult children still lives with him. Adult stepchild lives with him. Other adult child is married. None of the 3 want anything to do with the wife. Wife’s repeated failure to stay clean following in-patient rehab stays is what triggered the divorce petition by the husband.

@Vince
If they were married for years and she’s been doing all the domestic labor without a job, then he needs to compensate for her reduced earning potential. If you don’t want to pay alimony, marry someone who will keep a job and do your part around the house. Simple.

@Finn
Fortunately, I live in a state that doesn’t allow alimony unless your child is disabled or your spouse is disabled, which in that situation alimony does make sense. Doing your part around the house somehow doesn’t qualify for anything if you hold a job, but not working does? There is zero way to prove the domestic labor division. The working spouse (male or female) could still be the primary caregiver but is penalized for supporting the family.

@Vince
Which is why you don’t allow someone to take advantage of you like that.

Finn said:
@Vince
Which is why you don’t allow someone to take advantage of you like that.

How do you prevent it?

Wei said:

Finn said:
@Vince
Which is why you don’t allow someone to take advantage of you like that.

How do you prevent it?

Women do the vast majority of childrearing, household administration, and chores. In reality, men don’t have to worry because they don’t do their fair share of domestic work anyway. There’s even research suggesting that breadwinning women do more housework than breadwinning men. So, even when a guy doesn’t have a job, the woman still has to do domestic work. If you’re truly worried, the best way to avoid the situation is to marry a woman who is childfree and super career-oriented. Remove the possibility of staying home from the beginning, and you’ll never have to worry.

Cy said:
@Tan
I agree in most cases. What if one spouse was abusive and forced the other to be a stay-at-home husband/wife? Then the abuser should pay alimony till the other is back on their feet.

Wife was abusive. Video documentation exists because the kids videoed episodes. Husband is paying because that part hasn’t yet been presented. Adult kids are also willing to testify. Please don’t assume the husband was abusive.

Cy said:
@Unclewaffl3s
When did I ever assume it was the husband??? I said Husband/Wife, or did you not read that part, only what you wanted to read?

That’s fair. You are correct. The wife chose not to work, but the husband bore the domestic responsibilities. I agree that coercive control is a huge problem regardless of gender. I’ll further concede that it’s generally the wife (anecdotally) who is the coercively controlled spouse.

Cy said:
@Tan
I agree in most cases. What if one spouse was abusive and forced the other to be a stay-at-home husband/wife? Then the abuser should pay alimony till the other is back on their feet.

Did this hypothetical abused spouse who was ‘forced’ to stay at home make ANY attempt to LEAVE? But regardless, alimony should not be a thing.