Can the US Vice President use the 25th Amendment right after winning the election?

The 25th Amendment states:

“Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.”

So, could the Vice President declare the President unable to perform their duties right on the first day in office? How would the requirement for a majority apply if no cabinet members are in place yet? If no members are appointed, could the Vice President wait for just one cabinet member to be approved and then act?

There’s always someone leading the executive departments. If a previous secretary left and a new one hasn’t been confirmed yet, the highest-ranking officer left takes over as acting secretary. Acting secretaries have limits by law, but I think they could still act under the 25th Amendment.

@Tommy
Interesting point. Are these higher-ranking officers usually from the previous party in power or are they generally non-partisan? If they are from the previous party, could they make a deal to remove the President and take the presidency for themselves? Of course, this would be tough and likely hurt the public’s trust in the presidency, but it would be fascinating to see how this would unfold both politically and constitutionally.

@oliviamartin
All political appointees usually resign, leaving non-political people. However, one goal of Project 2025 is to replace those career officials with partisans loyal to Trump, so it could look different in 2029.

@Tommy
Just to clarify, Project 2025 is from the Heritage Foundation, not Trump, and would apply no matter which Republican takes office. The Heritage Foundation seems to aim at making America more authoritarian while Republicans hold power to make it harder to remove the party later…

After that, when the President tells Congress he’s fine, he gets his powers back…

So this would happen right away. Afterward, if the VP and Cabinet say he’s unable again, Congress will meet to decide. If both the House and Senate vote two-thirds in favor, the VP stays as Acting President. If not, the President gets his powers back. One of the first things he’ll do is ask Congress to impeach the VP and fire at least one Cabinet member.

@Quill

Lennon said:
@Quill

If they wanted that, the President could just resign right away, right? So why go through all this trouble?

Lennon said:
@Quill

There’s no need for a President and VP to collude to use the 25th. If they want the VP to take over, the President can just resign. Then the VP becomes President. Using the 25th just makes the VP Acting President, while the real President can reclaim power with just two letters. Plus, he wouldn’t be able to have a VP of his own since he’s still the VP.

Lennon said:
@Quill

I don’t think the original poster is asking about collusion. I think they want to know if the VP could invoke the 25th to take the presidency on day one, likely referring to the theory that Vance might try to declare Trump unfit and take over. I doubt Trump would agree unless he had something big to gain, which isn’t that far-fetched.

Lennon said:
@Quill

I’d say it’s not about the President and VP working together, but rather the VP and the President’s supporters, with the President being an unwitting pawn in the scheme.

Lennon said:
@Quill

Actually, my question was more about how many people the VP would need to involve if they wanted to undermine the President and gain the presidency without the people’s consent or that of the acting President. I thought maybe they could act alone if no cabinet members were in place, but it seems they’d need a majority of the acting cabinet secretaries, which makes it way tougher.

@oliviamartin
Even then, if the VP did that, the President could just send Congress a letter saying, ‘I’m fine’ within 15 minutes.

I thought the ‘or such other’ part might relate to the Presidential Succession Act of 1947, but it doesn’t. It kicks in only when both the President and VP can’t perform their duties.

Sure, but the 25th Amendment gives the President the power to declare when he’s fit again. That process would take less than five minutes if the President isn’t truly unable to perform. The only times this has been used were when the President had to be sedated for a medical procedure.

The principal officers would be whoever is acting as department heads before the new President’s choices are confirmed by the Senate.

Sure, but it’s not like a TV show. The President can immediately override the decision and notify Congress. Once he does that, the power goes right back to him. Congress then has to meet and decide who holds the power.

Yeah, this isn’t something that’s going to happen right away. Vance will probably hold off until Trump does something really public that forces him to act.

If Vance can wait two years, he might serve a full 10 years. So it’s in his best interest to be patient.

@Zev
So Trump does something big and Vance acts. Then Trump sends his letters saying, ‘I’m fine’ and Vance will need to find a good hiding spot.

Zain said:
@Zev
So Trump does something big and Vance acts. Then Trump sends his letters saying, ‘I’m fine’ and Vance will need to find a good hiding spot.

Exactly, that’s why it needs to be something very public and embarrassing.